Accountability on Group Rides

[the dude himself]

There were some great conversations regarding accountability on group rides over the weekend. I've always approached group riding as more than just several individual riders going the same place at the same time. Part of the lore of group rides is the safety net that comes with numbers, whether it's knowing that your buddies will help you change a flat tire or help get your bike upright when you've thrown it down an embankment. I heard several other arguments made: folks are responsible for their own safety and fulfillment, folks are responsible for the person in front of/behind them, if you're gonna be foolish you've gotta be tough; but in my opinion it's more like maritime law - if there's a person in distress you stop and offer the level of assistance you're comfortable with.

Without going Pirate and appointing safety officers toting first aid kits enforcing hand signals for everything from left turn to synchronizing side stand movements, what can we do to ensure that no one is left behind?

I would start by suggesting keeping groups of 4-6 riders together, and slowing/stopping when the person behind you falls out of sight. Always stop at a turn/confusing intersection and wait for the person behind to signal you to go (flashing headlight, turn signal, thumbs up). Wait for the group to regroup after rough sections or 20 minutes. If someone wants to leave/change groups they need to make it known.

It might also be a good idea to have a voluntary exchanging/collecting of names/phone numbers at the beginning of a ride so that if someone is missing they can be tracked down. There were several folks asking about the missing rider this weekend for hours before they showed up, but no one had any contact information.

[hondahawkrider]

There were some great conversations regarding accountability on group rides over the weekend. I've always approached group riding as more than just several individual riders going the same place at the same time. Part of the lore of group rides is the safety net that comes with numbers, whether it's knowing that your buddies will help you change a flat tire or help get your bike upright when you've thrown it down an embankment. I heard several other arguments made: folks are responsible for their own safety and fulfillment, folks are responsible for the person in front of/behind them, if you're gonna be foolish you've gotta be tough; but in my opinion it's more like maritime law - if there's a person in distress you stop and offer the level of assistance you're comfortable with.

Without going Pirate and appointing safety officers toting first aid kits enforcing hand signals for everything from left turn to synchronizing side stand movements, what can we do to ensure that no one is left behind?

I would start by suggesting keeping groups of 4-6 riders together, and slowing/stopping when the person behind you falls out of sight. Always stop at a turn/confusing intersection and wait for the person behind to signal you to go (flashing headlight, turn signal, thumbs up). Wait for the group to regroup after rough sections or 20 minutes. If someone wants to leave/change groups they need to make it known.

It might also be a good idea to have a voluntary exchanging/collecting of names/phone numbers at the beginning of a ride so that if someone is missing they can be tracked down. There were several folks asking about the missing rider this weekend for hours before they showed up, but no one had any contact information.

At the ride meeting for the 777 ride... I explained the "responsible for guy behind you methodology"... This means you can ride as fast as you want - but if the group comes to a turn, and their aren't there... You wait... It's easy, it just requires that folks follow it.. I led allot of the ride of one group - at some points - I took off like snot.. .Some time to try and catch the fast group, but as you probably noticed - everytime there was a turn or a possible question to those behind me - you saw me waiting for the group...

In the case of the rider who got lost... They were not in the back of the pack, but rather mid pack... In this case the person in front of her didn't wait (bad rider)... However, after the water crossing - not everyone wound up in their same groups, it was a bit too loosy goosy for who was in what group... We should have be a bit alert to that fact, and at least designated leader and trail of each group...... In this case, this rider thought they knew where folks went - ie saw dust and took off... Had they waited for those behind - there would have been no problem.... It's a learned lesson...

As for phone numbers... Everyone had mine - I gave it out and several folks called me - so I had numbers...DMar and Skierd took off to find a tire - they called me.. However, at about every spot where I checked for messages - I had no signal... Again - you can't depend upon phones.... See the who responsible for the rider behind you thing.... If your not sure, stop and wait, and it will create a domino effect... I hear way to often I didn't want to leave the group behind as I didn't know where I was or going... This leads to a cluster effect - as if you take more than one turn - and you lose the group in front - your apt to have more than one lost person or group...

The ride home on Day 2 went pretty well -we had what 8-9 bikes - it was go like snot at your own pace - till a turn - slow down - make sure the groups is back there - then take off. As a leader, when there was a turn - I would usually wait till I saw you (running trail) and would take off.... I have done this process in groups as large as 15 - for several hundred miles, where the group is seriously spread out.. When there is a turn - you wait till the next rider shows up, and go. If that rider gets to the turn and nobody is behind them - they wait till the next person see's em and they jet... It takes a bit of practice - but it works, it just requires some practice and some independent thinking - ie chuck the "I gotta stay with group" mentality... Personally, I was bad at this early on Day 1... I should have done more to re-enforce this by stepping up the pace a bit and not having 20 something bikes all grouped... Things work themselved out - the fast guys step it up (usually on the long stretches of road), and the slower folks wind up toward the rear... It's usually good periodically to let everyone get all grouped up at times...

It usually takes a ride or two to get it all sorted out right - as some folks want .. notice I said want - to be with the fast guys - and some want to ride in the back... If you ride your own ride and quit worrying about where you are in the pack, and keep track of the guy behind you - it's all good...

[code]

What was said at Pt. of Rocks, may not of been heard by all due to the train ordeal. In any event, when we arrived at sheetz it was pretty clear that we needed/should divide into smaller groups. Take into account, last year we had roughly 8-10 people on the 777 ride, which is larger then what I prefer to ride with, but it worked out great for the ride we did. Even then, I believe the group we had got divided in sections into two groups. When you have 20 people, breaking into 4-5 groups, it gets a little extensive to keep track of all of the groups and who belongs with what group. aka. the water crossing cluster. On the ride home, we had no problems keeping track of our group which grew by another, and out there we had no issues.

What jason said, pretty much says it all. The more you ride with people, the more you learn there riding styles, etc. so when placed in a pick a group situation, people obviously tend to go with who they know best, who they have ridden with most, and who they feel they mesh well with riding wise. It's by default that this comes off as "cliques". I can see new riders trying to meet people to ride with, etc. seeing it as so. However, that is part of the beauty of events like the 777 campout. You can do the ride with one group, and chances are each group hit sections of road that others didn't, and then meet up with the entire group and share stories of how you arrived at the destination, etc. The only people that will be excluded from those convo's are the people that exclude themselves. Every ride is a learning experience, every group is going to be different, you do the best you can to make it as smooth as possible for everyone, but that's not always the case. It works out in the long ride so much as the individuals on the ride know their level of experience and what not to do should they get detached from a group and unable to find another. On the 777 ride, Kathy missed chunks of road that she really was interested in trying out simply because she knew better. Sure that sucks, but why push it? She knew where she was and how to get to camp, she knew her level of experience and had fun getting to where she needed to be. I would hope that anyone on that ride, had the same thing happened to them, would've been able to find the camp in the end (even if it ment stopping off and asking for directions and just taking pavement the entire way).

[pmullen]

I was thinking we could get the Yuppy Hardly Riders to come over and teach us formation riding, the hand signals, etc.

heck, we already truck our bikes to rides...

[mdubya]

As someone who is often the leader of group rides of varying sizes, I wait for the whole group at every turn. Some get frustrated with that approach, but it keeps the group together.

[hondahawkrider]

I was thinking we could get the Yuppy Hardly Riders to come over and teach us formation riding, the hand signals, etc.

heck, we already truck our bikes to rides...

LOL..

However, Ken- while I love you man... You need to pay attention to this... On Mdubya's ride - you blasted past me while I fixed my bark buster - and didn't tell the group you had passed me (I heard the group stop and start again while I was stopped fixing my bike and you never said anything to them - and even later on you thought I was in front - even though you passed me, I blamed it one senility) and then again going that last stretch into the hotel/Campground - when on the dirt path - you took a hard left onto a path and didn't slow down... I barely had time to take the turn and didn't have time to stop where anyone behind me could see... I was lucky where Biffer saw me make the turn and waited for the KLR to catch up...

You sir, are far from the slow guy.. far from it... Not everyone is going to be able to keep up with you... You need to pay attention that folks behind you might not be able to keep pace and know where you are going... Just because you are old and think you are slow, doesn't make it so.. .. No sh!t . At American Supercamp, you weren't the fastest in the intermediate group = but your were the smoothest.. On day one going into boyer campground/motel - you were smooth and had a good pace, I kept dropping back to see where Biffer and the KLR were - and had to work my ass off to keep wingfixer in sight after pauses... No kiddling - when you make turns (ie that left) your really need to check that more than one rider has followed you.... Yeah the guy behind you should be enough - etc.. .However, when leading - you should check more to make sure EVERYONE is there - especially when making a major turn.. I get that you were a man on the mission, but I didn't see (and it could be me) that you were checking to make sure the WHOLE group was behind you at any point - you were just going .. and going ... and going... I don't think that you get that you are faster than you think you are...

[pmullen]

I am appropriately chastised

[mdubya]

[pmullen]

[Roadracer_Al]

I have to say that this is one area in which the East Coast kicks the shit out of the West Coast.

I have been on a few group rides out here and it's like being thrown to the wolves. Not only will you get stuffed into a corner if you're going too slow, you get left behind without a second thought.

I don't know if this is everyone out here, or just the groups I've fallen in with -- one group is a bunch of retired guys that have ridden together -- make that ridden together DAMN Fast -- for 20 years, and their MO is "Hey, we'll meet for lunch at that red burger shack in New Cuyama." Since they're either all fast they get there together, or know how to get there, no problem. Never been to New Cuyama? Don't lose sight of the guy in front b/c nobody is waiting at corners or anywhere.

The other group is a bunch of former and current road and/or desert racers. It's like being in a race with no yellow or red flags. Fall down? Wait for the ambulance on your own, slacker. With this group, you can usually catch them because they're pulling off on scenic spots for a "safety meeting" which involves fire, pocket-sized tubular hardware, and a popular horticultural product. Two guys from this group have knowingly left either mortally injured or dead-at-the-scene riders behind. I suspect they don't want scrutiny from the law, but still, that's fucking wrong.

I enjoy the riding, but the dog-eat-dog culture is a bit wearing. I swear, it's the pirate code in real life.