Accountability on Group Rides

[pmullen]

As a group leader/coordinator, you take on the responsibility for the riders that participate in your posted "event."

Well said Kath! Therefore HHR, it is ALL YOUR FAULT

and Kath, yes we can, do and will bust on someone for how they ride - 'specially if they are one of the founding members...

everyone else will get a pass

[mdubya]

No one is busting on anyone for how they ride. I think the point that is being made is this...if you are going to schedule a GROUP ride, then you better have a plan for keeping ALL levels and speeds of riders organized/together and accounted for. Period. You can't expect everyone to have a good time by either a) riding slow to suit the new riders or slower riders or b) riding faster than their skills to keep up with the hooligans. As a group leader/coordinator, you take on the responsibility for the riders that participate in your posted "event."

Well said Kath.

[mdubya]

we can, do and will bust on someone for how they ride - 'specially if they are one of the founding members...

This is Ken's passive/aggressive request to continue calling him fast.

[hondahawkrider]

As a group leader/coordinator, you take on the responsibility for the riders that participate in your posted "event."

Well said Kath! Therefore HHR, it is ALL YOUR FAULT

and Kath, yes we can, do and will bust on someone for how they ride - 'specially if they are one of the founding members...

everyone else will get a pass

I agree to a point..... I was responsible for everyone in the group, when I was the leader of everyone... when the group splits up, each leader of the smaller groups is then responsible.... funny, but even when my group went off course, I was able to keep my group together, interesting.......

[hondahawkrider]

There is one thing that hasn't really been mentioned - but here goes..It's been mentioned that we (royal we) really don't want to be like the harley queers and have a road captain, with designated blockers, knob..errr crome polishers and sweepers - etc..

What hasn't been addressed is how everyone was able pretty much ride in groups and all take the same basic route, where many hadn't ridden the roads yet... Everyone had the opportunity to get gps/gpx files for a GPS - or could have imported them into google, and there were even rollcharts provided with all the turns and mileages...

Everyone here has been on group rides - how often does everyone get that kind of detail on a non organized non pay event... Allot of pay events don't always provide both (s-500 does rollcharts, pb300 is gps).. Allot of rides I have been on are more adhoc where I have just been following someone - and that's it..

When I go on someone else's ride - I follow whatever that person wants to happen - as it's their ride - they have their idea on what to expect and how to deal with it.. I'm (to coin a pun) just along for the ride. Basically, their ride, their rules..

Admittedly, some folks take the whole road captain bs too far and turn into napoleon's or ahabs, whathave you and always want control over the group.. I didn't want or ever want the 777 ride to be such a thing - I want it to be fun. It's why I provided all the directions either via gps/rollcharts - so if things did get pulled apart - everyone could do their own thing at their own pace. Truthfully, I like putting the gps routes together (rollcharts come from them anyway), as it helps me out a great deal when on the road. However, it does take time to put it all together as there is more than just the GPS routing - it's also doing research on good roads - etc.

Thus, since I have taken the time to put it all together (soup to nuts), that if folks want to split off and follow the route I provided for them, that they do so in the spirit in which I envisioned it.. Which basically boils down to "ride your own ride", and "be responsible for the guy behind you" which are mentioned at the start of the ride.. Sure it might not be necessary if a kyler bucho & wingfixer all take off on their own and are used to being nuts-to-butts together in a group... err while riding... ahhh - I mean while riding on motorcycles (yeah, that's it)..

The only reason I mention this is as dc_m typed earlier - when the "responsible for the guy behind you" is mentioned at the start of the ride. That's what he's expecting from ANY leader if he winds up in THAT group. Personally, it doesn't bother me if/when folks want to take off on their own, esp if they have ridden together in the past and don't want to be "responsible for the guy behind you", as long as ALL the riders of that group are on the same page.. I am even OK with a group telling someone they might not want someone in their group (unknown to them) as long as said rider can get in another group.. Personally, I don't think it's wise to not keep track of the rider behind you - but you take your chances, as they can get a flat w/o tools and be miles away from home... oh wait.. nm..

I know after any organized ride - the leader/planner/organizer is always subject to day-after armchair quarterbacking, it's the nature of the beast.. However, if someone feels they can do better - with a large group - provides the same level of detail - and the same quality of roads - I'll be your huckleberry and show up...

[mdubya]

Jason, I wouldn't take any of this too personally ( I don't necessarily think you are ). You are a good ride leader as is evidenced by the turn out for your rides.

The best we can do is to please most of the people most of the time.

I have been on group rides where I have been the voluntary sweeper, making sure everyone makes it through OK, only to be left far behind be a fast paced leader with just newbies and lucky one of them had a GPS. It kind of sucked. Especially since the ride leader was the only one that had any sort of clue as to where we were, or where we were going. Then back at the camp ground the leader and those who chose not to wait for the stragglers were gloating about how they "beat" everyone back to camp.

[hondahawkrider]

Jason, I wouldn't take any of this too personally ( I don't necessarily think you are ). You are a good ride leader as is evidenced by the turn out for your rides.

The best we can do is to please most of the people most of the time.

I have been on group rides where I have been the voluntary sweeper, making sure everyone makes it through OK, only to be left far behind be a fast paced leader with just newbies and lucky one of them had a GPS. It kind of sucked. Especially since the ride leader was the only one that had any sort of clue as to where we were, or where we were going. Then back at the camp ground the leader and those who chose not to wait for the stragglers were gloating about how they "beat" everyone back to camp.

Naaaah... You know me - I don't take it personally...

It's just that everyone does things differently as they have different opinions (you know what they say about opinions, they are like a$$holes, everyone has one) on how to do a group ride...I am not saying that any one way is better than another... In this case, I wanted folks to use a system that works for me.. As I planned it out, provided the routes (gps or rollchart), and got folks to come on out. I don't think it's wrong to ask folks to adhere to the two rules especially when those in the groups hadn't ridden together before...

I agree that as it's MY ride, so I am responsible for folks, but it's like trying to heard cats at times..... Initially, in the AM I tried to keep folks together - but it becamse a CF as there were too many different ridings styles and just too many riders in a group.. Try dealing with that, plus some directional issues (some GPS - some not looking down at the GPS in time - etc).. Again, as stated - I really didn't have a big deal with folks wanting to split off into groups, I get it... However, there wasn't much reasoning behind who was going with whom. I had to make sure that A) everyone knew we were in seperate groups B) that at least one if not two people in each group had either a roll chart or a GPS so as to NOT get lost C) make sure everyone was in a group... yeeeahah, get along little kitties

I provided gps/rollchart/google maps - etc, I rode at my own pace when I led my group, sure I took off at times but I stopped wherever I thought their might be a question as to direction.. It worked well for my group on day one, and worked pretty well on day 2 when I led a 2nd group behind the fast guys -etc. I did the best I could in terms of disclaimers and road conditions, surfaces - etc.. I honestly think there couldn't have been much more planning past say a better lunch stop or gas stop for those with tiny tanks.. Tho A) at the rate we riding - we wouldn't have all eaten at the same time B) my XRL didn't have any gas issues with my big tank - and at least one person with a smaller tank had reserve bottles with them just in case (ie was prepared that they might need to go further) and C) we are all adults and do we really need to be spoonfed every detail. I tried to consider the smallest common denomonator - but it's hard to do when you don't really know all the bikes and the riders who will show at the last minute..

In my own way, I liked this year better than last.. It wasn't as infamous - but I liked all the different types of roads that we (well at least my group hit), pavement, dirt, gravel, rocks, harpin twisties, hills, and very little overall slab...
My last bit in the paragraph above, was more that I wanted to encourage others to plan and create rides like the 777 - with the planning, directions on roll charts/or gps files, get folks to come out, and to see how they deal with it all. Again, it's not like planning a route sucks the life outta you or anything, but it's several hours or evenings of work - especially with checking on good roads.. Like anything that you spend some time on, you own it.. Basically, you have an idea how it will go - and when it goes offroute (literally take a wrong turn), or it's others who want to split off, or folks who don't like a certain roads but others love it , or who wind in the wrong group (too fast or too slow), it all comes back to the planner.. Anyone who has led more than one ride with more than 4-5 folks at a time knows the score that it's not always the easiest of jobs trying to please everyone. It's something that I think everyone should get to experience so as to see how they deal