Unreasoning Concern over Gravel in Corners

[chasbo]

Yep, it is my biggest phobia on the bike. For me, my biggest pucker moment is in an off camber downhill corner covered in that fine gravel they use for traction in the winter. I absolutely freak out. If the road is flatish I am a little better, but still neurotic about it. I have never gone down because of it, but am scared to death I will.


The oddest thing is that on a bicycle I am fearless. I have hit 65mph on my racing bike...in spandex no less and just swoop through the corners.


Am I being overly paranoid here?

I usually try to take a straighter path through graveled corners and try to keep my lean and speed at a minimum. Beyond that I am clueless.

What precautions or techniques do you guys use to deal with that scenario?

[mdubya]

Make sure you are in a position to be on the gas through every corner. You may slide, but being on the throttle will keep you from going down. It is pretty much the #1 rule for riding dirt IMO, and it translates to any low traction scenario.

[Bucho]

Make sure you are in a position to be on the gas through every corner. You may slide, but being on the throttle will keep you from going down. It is pretty much the #1 rule for riding dirt IMO, and it translates to any low traction scenario.

Just to add. Don't be going way too fast in the first place... But be able to go through the corner on the throttle.

The other day w/ you, I wasn't super confident on my concours, but some of same gravelly/dusty corners I know I would have been going fast w/ my DR. I think some of it is mental.

[CapoGreg]

mdubya and Bucho both hit it right. Enter at the right speed so you have some traction in reserve an can roll on a little throttle if you start to slide. While in the corner, I make quick glances at the road closer to me to spot obstacles I couldn't see farther back and make appropriate line adjustments. Taking the American Supercamp class will help a lot with controlling the bike in low traction, however, it's nothing you can't practice on your own, just don't do it on that big KTM.

It's also mental, if you're afraid of crashing and can't overcome it, you won't get faster. I'm sure Al and anyone else who raced can speak to this better than me, but the key is to have confidence in your tires, that they won't let go in corner. I know it's hard to trust a skinny 90 or 110 tire on the front of a 600 pound bike in a hard corner, but you'd be surprised how well they do hold whether the road is dry, wet, sand, or loose gravel.

Bucho, I believe the correct statement is: "Riding fast is 90% mental, the other half is physical"

[Kath]

Boy do I know how you feel. My only wreck to date was due to gravel in a corner on a switchback mountain road. But, my mistake was panicking when I felt the bike start to slide and pulling out of the lean and running off the road. It took me a couple years and a couple different bikes to get over it, but I finally don't get paranoid around every corner anymore.

Other than stated here, the best thing to do is practice the outside-inside-outside line around the corner like they teach you in the MSF and take them at a lower speed until the lines are automatic to you and then increase your speed progressively as you gain confidence. You will get faster and faster.

[Rut Row]

Like you, loose corners used to terrify me. After taking Supercamp, they don't bother me nearly as much.

Also, weight the outside peg and shift your weight outward over the bike, and push the bike down into the corner. Until I took Supercamp, I never pushed the bike down in a turn - I let natural forces do their thing.

[hondahawkrider]

I didn't really have a problem with my DR350 or my XR... However, doing it on my 990 gives me a bit of pause.. The 990 rides and acts like alot smaller bike - but when it gets loose - even just a bit - you feel it's a big bike... Not to mention it's a lot more $ to fix and that can mess a bit with your head...

Once I put crash bars to protect my tank - and if I am going offroad on it - I use the big h/b hard bars - it's all pretty much indestructible if decides to take a nap... It's a great bike - but it's not a small one...

I see Louge is posting again - he's about the only person I have seen thrash one off road like it's no big deal....

[chasbo]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I have been doing most of the things that have been suggested so far. Weighting the outside peg, looking through the corner, staying on the throttle and such, so it is good to hear that I am approaching it right. I guess it is more a mental thing for me to work through. I need to get out there and practice it more to feel more comfortable doing it.

Bucho, riding the other day with you guys, there were those big 180 degree downhill corners that were making me feel squirrley. On the flats I am more calm, add that downhill sweep and it gets scarey for me.

I wish I could do the supercamp this year, but finances have ruled that out. I will hopefully get to it at some point though. I am going to start working harder at cornering in general. The big 990 is so much fun in them that I want to be able to use it to its potential. I guess the big plus here is that the fix is more riding. Who could be sad about that!

[mdubya]

When I ride by myself, I tend to go ride the stuff that I am uncomfortable with. Being by myself allows me to go at a cautious pace with out any outside pressure to perform.

When I lived in Montgomery County and rode a Ducati 900 SS, there was a road out near the Tridelphia Reservoir area which was very tight, had some single lane bridges, was crowned heavily in the middle (which meant all left handers were off camber), and was paved by tar and gravel with a paving seam right down the middle of each lane. It was one of the few roads that intimidated me on a sportbike. Subsequently, I used to head out to that very road most evenings after work trying to overcome my discomfort, little by little. After a while, the things I did on the SS on that road were downright criminal.

Other than a little bit of sight seeing, most of my rides are spent working on technique. To this day, I have to actively practice looking as far ahead as I can. Entering corners deep and exiting them on the inside is one of the best practices you can acquire. It makes you quick and smooth and gives you the entire rest of your lane to deal with any unforeseen "situations which may pop up. And they always do pop up!

[BigBird]

Chasbo - Looks like you've gotten lots of good advice.

Another thing that really works for me is to FOLLOW you, Bucho and Wingfixer through the turns :>)

Then I can figure if none of you had any problems I can probably make it ok on the BigBird!

Seriously, loose stuff in turns is indeed something all of us worry about. I particularly worry about sand as it is often spread thinly and the same color as the pavement - thus HARD to see!