Ethanol

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Rut Row
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Re: Ethanol

Post by Rut Row » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:16 am

I've spent the last 2 evenings researching ethanol. The problem isn't so much the ethanol itself but the fact that it will combine with water and then "phase separate". This creates a puddle of water below the gas and it is the water that is bad for aluminum and steel. The alcohol will dry out hoses and o-rings/gaskets if they aren't alcohol resistant but most modern gas hose is alcohol resistant. I did buy some special hose from an aircraft store designed specifically for use with alcohol just to be safe.

One product highly recommended in the marine threads is "Gas Shok." Others mentioned are Star-Thron, Sea-Foam and, of course, Sta-Bil.

Back to the aluminum. The aviation community coats the inside of their gas tanks for 2 reasons - (1) to seal the tank and (2) to prevent tank corrosion. The motorcycle threads on tank sealing usually discuss prevention of rust and corrosion. Both use similar products. Aluminum by itself will develop a layer of oxidation that protects against the gas but not prolonged exposure to water.

So, for the short term, I got some Marine Grade Sta-Bil to use.

This winter I'll coat the tank and replace the gaskets and o-rings.

btw, here's a good read http://www.goldeagle.com/UserFiles/file ... %20PSL.pdf
Ken
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motojunky
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Re: Ethanol

Post by motojunky » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:34 pm

Kyler wrote:
This winter I'll coat the tank and replace the gaskets and o-rings.
I used Caswell to coat my Scorpa tank. I more than doubled the recommended cleaning procedures and still see evidence that it didn't adhere completely. There are a few small blisters in the coating where it seems to have not stuck. It has been that way for quite some time now (maybe 10 months, too lazy to look at notes) and hasn't gotten any worse. I suspect I'd be OK with ethanol but just burned out on the whole idea of fighting it. If replacement tanks were readily available I'd be more inclined to try but for now I'm sticking with what works.

My point is, if you're going to coat, be extremely thorough when cleaning the tank before you start.
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Bork
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Re: Ethanol

Post by Bork » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:58 pm

I have successfully used Kreem in two tanks. But when I acid washed them, I put in a bunch of aquarium gravel to shake with. Super shinny when done, and had much rust to start.
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Wingfixer
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Re: Ethanol

Post by Wingfixer » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:50 pm

Bork wrote:I have successfully used Kreem in two tanks. But when I acid washed them, I put in a bunch of aquarium gravel to shake with. Super shinny when done, and had much rust to start.
That's exactly what I did to the Odysee tank! Works great!
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Re: Ethanol

Post by motojunky » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:00 pm

Bork wrote:I have successfully used Kreem in two tanks. But when I acid washed them, I put in a bunch of aquarium gravel to shake with. Super shinny when done, and had much rust to start.
Lots of reports online of Kreem not being ethanol resistant... I have not personally tested.
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Rut Row
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Re: Ethanol

Post by Rut Row » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:13 pm

This has gotten good reviews - from their FAQ
FINAL NOTE!!
OVER 3 MILLION CANS OF BILL HIRSCH'S SEALER HAVE BEEN SOLD IN OVER 40 COUNTRIES SINCE IT WAS
INTRODUCED 40 YEARS AGO. MORE BILL HIRSCH SEALER HAS BEEN SOLD THROUGHOUT THE WORLD THAN
ALL OTHER BRANDS COMBINED. IT IS STILL THE LARGEST SELLING SEALER AND IS THE ONLY TYPE SEALER
USED IN AIRCRAFT. WE DO NOT KNOWINGLY SELL THIS PRODUCT FOR USE IN AIRCRAFT SINCE WE CANNOT
CONTROL ITS APPLICATION OR END USE.
http://www.hirschauto.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GTS

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frogman1981
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Re: Ethanol

Post by frogman1981 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:15 pm


Just remember removing the alcohol lowers the octane. Mix with race gas to bring it back up.

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restukey
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Re: Ethanol

Post by restukey » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:38 pm

They have Cam2 out of the pump by Ballenger Creek, Md. Mike can probably tell you the exact location. I've used C-12 from C&C auto in Centreville, Va. That is out of the pump too, but expensive at 11 gal. I think I use about 10 or 12 gallons for the year doing supermoto.

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Re: Ethanol

Post by BillyGoat » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:02 pm

VP makes C10 and something new called "storage fuel" that has no ethanol. They also make a new fuel called T4 which is oxygenated, but not with ethanol. This is what they said about it:
New! T4™
T4 is designed for stock or slightly modified 4-stroke bikes, quads, UTVs, SXSs and other off-road vehicles used in competition. Unleaded and ethanol-free, T4 is a direct pour-in replacement for premium pump gas, which has a short storage life and has caused a heightened need for repairs in the powersports industry due to its ethanol content. While riders facing extreme conditions are forced to add octane boosters or race fuel to increase the octane of pump gas, T4’s 100 octane rating (R+M/2) provides greater protection against detonation. Compared with more expensive performance parts that increase power along only a small slice of the power curve, T4 offers 2-3% more power and better throttle response across the entire RPM range.

Good luck.
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Taylor
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Re: Ethanol

Post by Taylor » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:38 pm

BillyGoat wrote:VP makes C10 and something new called "storage fuel" that has no ethanol. They also make a new fuel called T4 which is oxygenated, but not with ethanol. This is what they said about it:
New! T4™
T4 is designed for stock or slightly modified 4-stroke bikes, quads, UTVs, SXSs and other off-road vehicles used in competition. Unleaded and ethanol-free, T4 is a direct pour-in replacement for premium pump gas, which has a short storage life and has caused a heightened need for repairs in the powersports industry due to its ethanol content. While riders facing extreme conditions are forced to add octane boosters or race fuel to increase the octane of pump gas, T4’s 100 octane rating (R+M/2) provides greater protection against detonation. Compared with more expensive performance parts that increase power along only a small slice of the power curve, T4 offers 2-3% more power and better throttle response across the entire RPM range.

Good luck.
Can the new T4 be used for 2st premix?
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