support class racing

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mdubya
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support class racing

Post by mdubya » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:42 pm

As I sit here watching the 125 GP from Mugello, I am reminded that almost always, the support classes like 125 and 250 gp and World Supersport have the most absolutely outrageous racing imaginable. This Mugello race is featuring 9 riders challenging for the lead with just a few laps to go. the out-braking manuevers into T1 are nothing short of ridiculous-lap after lap. And it is not just this race, it is 125, 250 and WSS, race after race. Awesome! :bow:
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Re: support class racing

Post by restukey » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:25 pm

And they'll be gone in another year or so too. Four Strokes are headed that way, I think Yamaha is now selling a 4T 250 TZ GP bike that will replace the 125's. I read some news on MotoGP.com that the 600's will replace the 250's or something like that.

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Re: support class racing

Post by mdubya » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:04 pm

restukey wrote:And they'll be gone in another year or so too. Four Strokes are headed that way, I think Yamaha is now selling a 4T 250 TZ GP bike that will replace the 125's. I read some news on MotoGP.com that the 600's will replace the 250's or something like that.
Honda wants to run 600cc production based motors in prototype chassis. The Euro manus have suggested 500cc twins (my preference). FG Sport (WSBK promotor) wants to derail 600cc GP bikes, saying they will threaten WSS.

My thoughts: all the manufacturers have 250F motors on which they could build and base 500cc twins, not to mention they could just saw 2 cylinders off of most Moto GP motors and have a good starting point. I can't say enough how cool 500cc v-twins in 250 GP like chassis would be. If we are lucky, it would lead to 500cc race replicas, dual sport and adventure bikes, and flat track racers. Well, that's what I wanna see anyway. :amazon: :grin: Imagine the sound of 500cc twins ripping to 15,000 RPMs. :-o
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Re: support class racing

Post by Bucho » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:13 am

A parallel twin or v-twin?
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Re: support class racing

Post by Roadracer_Al » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:28 am

I'm with you Mike.

We had a discussion about this on the MC_Chassis_Design listserv. It's my position that GP racing is, by definition, prototype racing, i.e. purpose-built race bikes. NOT production machinery, period. Using production motors infringes on any production-based racing series, which narrows the diversity in racing, which is bad for the sport. It also stunts development -- you know the old cliche, racing improves the breed.

We have WSB for a reason - to race production-based bikes on a world-class level. We have AMA Pro racing (or whatever that's called these days) for US-level racing. Why not concentrate GP on what GP does uniquely in the world of racing? Seems a no brainer to me.

If I were King 'O Racing, I'd build a very open format with certain limits: 4-strokes, have a stepped displacement rule like WSB - 700cc for singles, 550cc for twins, 400cc for triples, and no 4/5/6 cyl. bikes allowed. Unlimited engine architecture - i.e. twins can be boxer, parallel, or V, and transverse or longitudinal, horizontal or vertical. Must run on standardized, spec racing fuel. Unlimited chassis design. Unlimited aerodynamics. No noise restrictions (or at least very high limits). Since it's a prototype class, no spec tires -- the tire MFGs need competition as well. No minimum weight. No maximum HP.

Just sharpen your mind, fire up the CAD station, and go for it. Let's see the ultimate expressions of MC engineering. Expensive? Hella expensive. Worthwhile for the perpetuation and advancement of the sport? Hell yes.

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Re: support class racing

Post by mdubya » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:45 am

Bucho wrote:A parallel twin or v-twin?
No restriction on design architecture.

To expand on Al's comments, part of the concern on the manus part is they are spending huge amounts in Moto GP, so the need an affordable alternative in the feeder class. 250 2-strokes were perfect for years because the Japanese and Italian manus sold boatloads of 250 race replicas in Japan and Europe. Some of the things being discussed for what would be GP2 are rev limits (around 15K), and crate, spec type motors.

For me, I just thing 600cc GP would look very much like 800cc GP. Give us some thing different.
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