JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

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Re: JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

Post by John F » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:19 am

My Husky 450 fe seems to run fine, but it does get hot and doesn't have the punch a 450 should. From the reading I've done, I'm going with a JD or Vortex. I haven't figured out which. Both get really good reviews. I've done most of the other stuff I needed to do--tail tidy, suspension lowered, SM set up--so the motor is next up.

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Re: JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

Post by smdub » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:40 am

Firebolter wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:21 pm
Using a EFi tuner is not snake oil. He does re-brand them, for 40 bucks cheaper than JD Jetting does. As far as Slaven's tuner and the Vortex option, you are buying maps that are pre-set for 3 times the cost.
Having taken a lot of our competitors parts apart, not everything that looks the same is made equal. This is especially true with software. There is both in a piggyback tuner. Short of a teardown are they really the same? The JD is only about $15 more delivered as its found in many places online, usually on sale w/ free shipping.

Also, Slavens/Vortex/etc where they can go in and reprogram the ECU can be worlds better than an external piggyback. There is far more flexibility to control fuel AND spark timing during warmup / overrun / etc. All things a piggyback can't do. A 'map' selection is really a bank of maps. Its not just one 2D chart. For the price of the Vortex/etc I'm surprised there isn't someone with a Microsquirt replacement (though I simply haven't looked either)

If one wants to buy from BDSB its there prerogative. But look at his business practices and warranty complaints before you do. I'll never patronize him on that alone. Last I'll say on the subject.
Stephen (not Steve) - '08 Monster S2R1000 / '20 KTM 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / '15 OSET 20.0R (kid's)
For sale: 2016 Sherco 300 Factory

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Re: JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

Post by J&J » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:47 pm

Ok I'll chime in. Some of you know that I put a big bore kit on my 250 with a JD Tuner. I have been having some trouble getting it tuned correctly. My situation is different from a stock bike since I did a big bore kit but this is what I have learned...

The ONLY way to know about your fueling is with an Air Fuel Ratio guage. You can look at the plug but that won't tell you what's going on at different rpms. I ended up welding an O2 sensor bung in my pipe and temporarily putting a wide band O2 sensor and guage on my bike. Your results will be different for a stock bike but my tuner is specifically for the big bore kit. What I found was that my bike was overfueling. Way too rich and the tuner didn't have the range to turn it down enough. Turning the TPS down is leaning it out. The TPS affects the entire fuel curve not just the idle. It tells the ECU where the throttle plate is and what you are asking the engine to do. The voltage goes up the further you open the throttle and the ECU gives more fuel the further you open it. It is linear across the entire range.

On a stock bike turning the TPS up a little will richen it. Cheap and easy and I would try that first but... MAKE SURE you know where you are starting from. On a stock bike you might only need to richen the idle which the TPS can't do, the JD tuner can do it nicely. These bikes do not run well if they are too rich. Look here for information on air fuel ratios: http://www.safrtool.com/SAFR-AFR-values.asp

I still haven't gotten mine dialed in. I'm on hold now because I have developed a water pump issue. At 230 hours I have had a seal failure unrelated to the other work, loosing coolant. I need the cooling system working properly to continue. I have ordered new seals and a high flow kit for good measure.

To be continued....

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Re: JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

Post by smdub » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:58 am

J&J, Thats awesome! I *COMPLETELY* agree that a WBO2 is the only way to do it right. I have a bunch of Innovate Motorsports WBO2 sensors in the cars. I have an old LC-1 w/ the tailpipe adapter that we've used on four stroke street bikes to tune the carbs. I'd love to try it on the 150 but I'd have to weld a bung as you did. I have that capability so I'm still contemplating it. Where did you locate it? Just after the expansion chamber? I'd have to make sure the muffler joint doesn't leak so that I don't draw in any outside air during reverse pressure waves. I've never done a 2-stroke before.

BTW, I want to give a shout out to Firebolter. He and I have been chatting offline about our new closed loop KTMs and how to tune them. He sent a good video about the differences in tuners. He also found out Dobeck is the company who makes the EJK tuner that is brand labeled by everyone (JD, BDSB, etc.) So they are all the same inside - buy from whatever vendor you prefer to patronize.
Stephen (not Steve) - '08 Monster S2R1000 / '20 KTM 500 EXC / '17 150 XC-W / '19 Sherco 300FST / Sur-Ron LBX / '15 OSET 20.0R (kid's)
For sale: 2016 Sherco 300 Factory

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Re: JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

Post by Firebolter » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:19 am

No worries, I like to share! :killingme:

Tweaking the TPS will indeed richen it up some and that is an easy way to get out of the lean zone, but not exactly a great way IMO. As most of you have already pointed out or know, a sniffer with a dyno is the best method to determine what your burn is. These piggy back tuners are only as good as you set them up. I bought the BDSB tuner for 2 reasons, 1. because after I found out they all are re-branded Dobeck's, I went with price and 2. he offered all of his dyno runs and time to back up his recommended settings for a nice AFR across the rev range. As J said, AFR is the real ticket to good throttle response and a healthy burn. JD has been in the game for along time and I am sure his recommended settings will work well too.

I removed the reeds, removed/desmogged the stock vacuum canister( and added the dongle to keep from throwing codes) and plugged the vacuum line off, added the BDSB end cap (nice work on that BTW) and set the tuner up per BDSB recommended settings and I can say this, it is crisp, starts easy and revs clean and is snappy. I don't have alot of time on it, waiting for the Fuel Pumps to get back in stock so I can put the Acerbis 3.1 tank on with a better fuel pump than stock. Once I get that all finished, I'll do some more break in runs and get some time on this tune. But for now, I like how the motor responds to this setup. Yeah, I doubt his 70Hp claim and he is a bit of a dweeb, but his prices are fair and the machining on the end cap it very nice, A perfect fit and quality piece for a good price. You need not spend 300+ bucks for a new can to get good performance.

Fuel pumps are the weak link in these bikes. All brands use Chinese pumps. About 90% of the after market options are Chinese. I have been bitten once by one of these cheap stock pumps on my 310 Husky, so I will buy one of these Taiwanese pumps and carry the stocker as a spare. After I had that failure in my 310, I always rolled the key and waited for the pump to prime, then I would ride off but always in the back of my head, I was wondering if it would fail when I was deep in the bush 30 miles from anywhere! That's why my smokers are carb'd! You pretty much have to go EFI if you want a modern 4stroke that is a real dirtbike, and that is cool, but dang I wish some company would make a really good fuel pump!
Lots of cool bikes---

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Re: JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

Post by aai » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:29 pm

Firebolter wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:19 am
No worries, I like to share! :killingme:

I doubt his 70Hp claim and he is a bit of a dweeb, but his prices are fair and the machining on the end cap it very nice, A perfect fit and quality piece for a good price.
:lol2: yeah I think he suffers from some form of Apnea :think: stops breathing while talking. I know a little something about that myself. Regardless I mentioned a while back this guy backs it up by welding up an 02 bung for tuning, then dynos and shares as needed for business. Wished we had more people would do that to compare. Fortunate to have a (Dynojet) bike dyno down the street from me and thinking just drop the dime to do a before and after. No different than what Ive done on past cars, so its all fun to me. 70hp seems whack but Im more interested in the 15hp+ bump before and after. Put this to rest as they say. Looking forward to your opinion on his whole setup. $650 doesn't seem much for a more reliable mount if anything.https://bestdualsportbikes.com/all-prod ... 3tt6-h9p74 Well minus the endcap, already have that :thumbup:
Thanks,
Sonny
Husky FE 501
Beta Evo Sport 4T
Bultaco Sherpa T

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J&J
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Re: JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

Post by J&J » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:10 pm

Stephen, my bike is a 4 stroke so no expansion chamber. I put it in the head pipe right behind the cylinder. Btw you probably know but careful about sealant on the muffler joint, silicon is not good for the O2 sensor.

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Re: JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

Post by Laoch » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:08 am

I have a JD Jet tuner to put on. I’m going to pull reeds and unplug the pipe. I’ll try the recommended open settings and see how it runs.
Bruce
'19 FE250/some trials bikes

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Re: JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

Post by John F » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:24 am

Please post your results with the JD. My Husky 450fe runs great, but I'm still thinking about getting a tuner. Although the GET seems like the best, based on what I've read and the Tacomoto stuff, I'm pretty sure I'd be fine with the JD and the savings. I don't ever want to tune my bike. I just want to set it and forget it.

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Re: JD/TPS tuner for EFI bikes

Post by Laoch » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:31 pm

Pulled the butt plug and yanked the reeds. Installed JD tuner with presets set to “off road”.
Obviously it’s louder. Seat of pants in backyard is that it feels “peppier”. I can loft the front much easier. More testing and riding this weekend.
Bruce
'19 FE250/some trials bikes

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